"The Male Recumbent"
Respond to ONE of the two options provided below no later than Friday, December 31st, at 5pm.
(1) What ideas about justice itself does this chapter present? To what extent do you agree with the? Be specific in your response, citing concise details from this chapter to support your opinions.
(2) Explain the implied metaphor made in the opening of the chapter. How does the use of "time travel" connect with the other references and/or use of time in other parts of this novel?
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ReplyDeleteThe metaphor shared the in opening chapter by Jesse Pasadoble is that when he goes up the elevator that is a metaphor to the the trauma that every men had when they came back to the united States. As the author mentions that each floor symbolizes a different perspective of these who came back from the war.
ReplyDeleteTo show this the author writes " In actuality it was not a gravitational effect at all but a temporal effect- a severe warpage of nearby space caused by the presence of so much time concentrated in such a restricted area." The author writes to that here Jesse is comparing the elevator going up into the seventh floor to the huey helicopter going up taking the soldiers that await horrible memories of the war they fought when they go back home. The war was over but the memories would stay and soon be forgotten but how long will it last to forget the war.The connection is while our men live as prisoners locked with horrible memories of war they react against their own country and thats why they are now in court being judge for crimes. They live in trauma their whole lives after war this is their reasons for being in court.
Luis: Thanks for your early response. What about the connection he makes to space/time travel?
ReplyDeleteThis chapter setting takes place mostly in prison. Prisoners are in jail sometimes for a week or possibly their entire lives depending on their crime. Nonetheless they are confined between four walls with limited "free" time for meals and P.E. The metaphor implies the use of time to "escape" from their cells by "[sleeping]...the years away...to reach [their]final destination (Vea,53) The use of "time travel"connects to other parts of the novel by referring to the past. For example Jesse often has flashbacks of his past and the story goes back and forth between different times for Vietnam war to the victims' lives.
ReplyDeleteThe use of the extended metaphor is used in the chapter "time travel" connects to the other references because Jesse the lawyer when he talks he uses references from the past,"As with every ride in this machine, the sloppy,sideways movements of the car reminded him of the Huey helicopters he had once ridden; he braced himself by grabbing a handrail as he began to experiencethe familiar yet still disconcerning sensation that his upper body was being pulled to the side and downward toward the floor." (Velva,52) The use of time is used to connect to the present and to the past cases.
ReplyDeleteSince this chapter took place mostly in jail, the prisoners had no other real escape. The metaphor "time travel"is said because the inmates had no other escape into reality. For the crime that they have committed, the will most likely spend lifetime in there and sleep their days away.
ReplyDelete(Vea,53) "It was the rare prisoner who could move[on] forward." "Someday these stunned and immobile travelers would sep blinking and yawning from their time capsules." this was said to mean that as if the prisoners were little kids. Playing around and knowing that maybe one day their days will end.This connects to the present the same way that other prisoners are in jail now.
The metaphor "Time Travel" in the following chapter relates to the prisoners because some of the prisoners are in prison for a small amount of time and others are there for life... And in order to kill time, "Some of the men are able to transform their bunk beds... terms back to back." (Vea 53) This means that some men manage to escape reality in prison while sleeping.
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ReplyDeleteThe ideas of justice that this chapter represents is that the justice system is racist.I agree with this because the judge or jury could be on the persons side if the person is a certain race.Also being a certain race could make the jury or judge think your guilty and not give you a chance.For example in this chapter Jesse describes the court like an orphanage he says"They adopt a child that looks like themselves.People want a child who matches their own skin color and eye color."(Vea,72) by this he means they like people who are the same race and they are more likely to help them out.Jesse also says that the jury will be white and that since Calvin is not like the jury they wont even listen to what he has to say."There will be twelve white people on the jury,Calvin,and they will all be looking right past you,right past a person who doesnt look a thing like themselves."(Vea,72)
ReplyDeleteI think the ideas about justice that are presented in this chapter is justice is never truly served because like Jesse said life is like a war. " There are seventy - five wars going on in this world right now.."(vea.p63)If there are wars going on 24/7 when is there even time to think about justice.I think the point Jesse made about war ties greatly in to justice because how can justice be severed is the world is a war. Also most of this chapter is set in jail,which shows jail is not showing justice for anyone because jail doesn't rehabilitate people and change so the can be better. its just a place where they are looked away ,and that defiantly does show any tpye of justice.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter presents that justice is injustice. As jesse goes back and forth between the past and present examples of injustice is being portrayed with those who are in jail. "As einstein had predicted, their souls and their futures would be completely unchanged, while the world around them had evolved and gone." The=e things that are described in jail represents how injustice the system is. Throughout this chapter justice is being portrayed as not applicable. Jesse being a defense attorney can also represent injustice because he may have to defend one who is wrong.I think the court system, those being in jail, and jesse being an defense attorney all coicides with justice and how it is not distributed.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter centers around prison and its prisoners. Often times people seem to think justice have been served when they have locked someone up. Whereas justice is never served because there are those who gets out of prison and go back to doing the same thing they went to prison for. One thing we have to realize is that for every positive there is a negative. In this chapter "justice" can represents bias or injustice. and good or evil. It also reflex on the lives of the past/present of men living in prison with the memories of war and crime.
ReplyDeleteJesse states "there are seventy five wars going on in this world right now". (pg.63) He also indicates life is like war and I agree. It doesn't matter how things may look justice is never served either in the court room or outside the court room. There will always be some form of bias. It also indicates "The courtroom is like an orphanage"(pg63); which I agree. The prisoners represents the children in an orphange and their life is in the hands of others(jurors). When we look at the world around us, war is still going on all around us. So, where is the justice. There is no war between good and evil; but justice (its a choice).
Hey Group members, why haven't any of you posted?
ReplyDelete"time travel","time travel" is the metaphor that is used in the opening. Of chapter three this metaphor can relate to the men in prison since many of the men are in there for life and others aren't .while in prison they have to do something to kill rme or otherwise they might just go insane.As in the book "these recumbent males , unable to change thei own botched lives, had somehow managed to Partially transform their bunk beds and cots" ( vea 53) this quote shows these inmates as Bein creative their beds to make their time in prison go by.
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ReplyDeleteThe ideas presented about justice in this chapter aren't quit fair, both Bernard and Calvin arent given much opportunity to speak in there defense.
ReplyDeleteJustice is what is trying to be brought two these two men, aswell as the victims, yet the law enforcers aren't being quit fair .impector Normandie for example, he interrogated Calvin, all he did was push Calvin to say what he wanted to hear happend tht night when Little Reggie shot those two women.Not much justice is shown when a person isnt left to speak his/her mind on an incident that can ruin there lives.
I believe the author uses the time travel as a metaphor to lay out, or set what may really go on in the minds of the characters, just Jessie. Time travel is a great example to express the feelings and surroundings around Jessie, like when he was in the elevator; the author uses the 7th floor as the key that changes Jessie's perspective, like time travel. The author uses time travel a lot, more in the first chapter with Persephone, going back when she was both alive, and after her death. Time travel in a sense is the authors own writing's style, being justified by the actions from the story's characters.
ReplyDeleteThe implied metaphor made in the opening of the chapter was between time travel and being in jail. Time travel is the concept of moving either back or forward in time. According to Jesse being in jail is like time travel. The prisoners transform their beds into machines capable of time travel. They go in one day into this "capsule" and come out years later not knowing what is happening around them. The prisoners "souls"(Vea, 53) are "completely unchanged"(Vea, 53) but "the world around them [has] evolved and gone on."(Vea,53) For example if a prisoner went to jail in 1960 and came out today he would have little to no knowledge of what has happened during those 50 years. Just as if he traveled through time.
ReplyDeleteThe use of "time travel" is used in other parts of the novel when Jesse remembers his past as a soldier in Vietnam. he goes "back in time" either because something happened that caused him to remember the Vietnam war or when he is having nightmare about it.
The idea of "racist" is presented within the whole chapter 3. I am really against this state because when Bernard starts to state all the things within all the schools that Jesse went to and began to say that he would of never get into one of those school because of the person he was.
ReplyDeleteAnother way in which Jesse supports my opinion , Jesse states al the schools he went to and really none of the schools Jesse attended had a lot of his own race. When the Doctor and Eddy got in the conversation and started to help out Jesse on his thought, they said both Eddy and the Doctor went to schools that really didn't have any of their race just like Eddy going to the University in Peru, and Eddy is Japanies.
The metaphor if "Time Travel" is basically used; in my point of view of the chapter, to escape the reality of being in prison. The idea of being able to think back and think of the memories that can help them forget about being trapped between four walls.
ReplyDeleteAlso, in Jesse's case of "Time Travel" it does not help him at all. It actually brings him nightmares. The memories of the war is too much for him. Especially when he first saw Bernard in front of him. That basically triggered Jesse's memories of the war and inevitably gave him nightmares.
When Jesse is interviewing Calvin he explains to him how the court is going to view him. He explains how the judge is going to favor certain races against others. For example the judge may favor or believe a white man over a black man. Jesse also states how their use of words is going to affect how the judge is going to view them because "even if they speak the truth, they won’t hear it if it has an accent or comes from thick, black lips. They certainly won’t hear it if it’s filled with sidewalk jargon and street slang."(Vea, 70) I somewhat agree with this because not all people are racist and not all people are guided by stereotypes.
ReplyDeleteThe use of "time travel" that refernces and use of time in other parts of this novel is when Jesse have to use "time travel" to remembers his past as a soldier in Vietnam. Example:(Vea Pg73)"Ay Dios mio, that Bao Vung is one hardheaded Vietnamese dude.Cabeza de piedra. He won't even talk to the interpreter.Jesse's voice dropped to a whisper. He reminds me of someone I met over twenty-five years ago in Vietnam." This is why I think the use of the time in other parts of this novel can have the same meaning as his quote.
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of chapter 3, the metaphor that is used is that Jesse feels sometime of "gravitational effect". He feels this while he is on the elevator of the prison. It is explained that this is felt because one is so concentrated in such a restricted area. However Jesse mentions that he feels this feeling every time he comes to the prison and gets on that elevator.
ReplyDeleteAlso in this chapter there is a type of imagery like time traveling. This concept connects to the novel because it goes from one period in time to another as if one would be time traveling back and forth.
The metaphor in the beginning of the opening chapter is based of "Time Travel". When Jesse entered the elevator and it started to go up, it reminded him of the Huey helicopter he had ridden in. "..he braced himself by grabbing a handrail as he began to experience the familiar yet still disconcerting sensation..." (vea.pg52)
ReplyDeleteTime Travel helped Jesse escape from reality and go to a place that he will always be comfortable and free in. Like the seventh floor; it was a world where all types lived and it was different from the real world.
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ReplyDeleteThe use of “time travel” is used in jail by the prisoners. Some of the prisoners are in there for a small amount of time while others are there for life. Some prisoners would use their bed as “time capsules” (pg 53) to escape reality and to kill time.
The metaphore in the begining dealing with time traveler deals with the prisoners. Though not all prisoners are there for months some are there for years. So his use of metaphor is yo reprenst the "escape" from their cells by "[sleeping]...the years away...to reach [their]final destination (Vea,53)Meanign that though they dontn have much to do they use their "capsuls" so that they can past their time there. Another example would be how Jesse refers to the past and how he still has the memories of when he was in war." As with every ride in this machine, the sloppy, sideways movements of the car reminded him of the Huey helicopter he had once ridden" (pg.52)
ReplyDelete20Vea used "Time Travel" as a metaphor in the beginning of the chapter. When Jesse entered the elevator and it started to go up, it reminded him of the Huey helicopter he had ridden in. "…he braced himself by grabbing a handrail as he began to experience the familiar yet still disconcerting sensationn..." (pg52) entered the elevator and it started to go up, it reminded him of the Huey helicopter he had ridden in. "…. he braced himself by grabbing a handrail as he began to experience the familiar yet still disconcerting sensation…." (vea.pg52)
ReplyDeleteTime Travel was an escape from reality for Jesse. “Time Travel" is used in other parts of the novel when Jesse remembers his past as a soldier in Vietnam.
The metaphor "time travel" is talking about prisoners, throughout the metaphor the prisoners seem to escape from prison in their sleep, and they would do that because some of them were there for a large amount of time and that way they would escape reality and use their beds as a time capsule and try to go to another period of time. " Everyone doing time knew you had to sleep the years away in a state of suspended animation in order to reach your destination alive". (pg. 53)
ReplyDeleteMost of this chapter took place in prison and it showed how some men stay incarcerated for a short time while others could stay for the rest of their life. The use of "time travel" was depicted by how the prisoners used their beds to sleep away the time they were incarcerated. But it seems to be more like being cryogenically frozen rather than travelling through time because time moves on but is not instantaneously fast fowarded.
ReplyDeleteThe metaphor"time Teavel"in this chapter relates to the prisoners because the prisoners are in jail and need to pass the time some way. To be able to forget that they are in jail,the "recumbent males, unable to change their own botched lives,had somehow managed to partially transform thier bunk beds and cots...Their beds were geared for long distances,for trips to Alpha Centauri and the Sombrero Galaxy"(Vea,53).The men had such a great imagination that let them leave reality and go to their own world of fantasy and wonder.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter shows that justice is really hard to accomplish because some people still believe in rascism. Even though Bernard is shown to be against another other race other than his,Jesse still tries to "threaten" him in order for him to accept the help."you're gonna hear me out Bernard.If you move one more inch i will send you to the doctor....Believe me Bernard, it will be my pleasure."(Vea,60),to Jesse it is more about proving him innocent than the color of his skin. He compares the case to the war and he plans to fight like he did in vietnam war.
ReplyDeleteMs. Roz still not able to post comments for my members who haven't posted anything :(.
ReplyDeleteIn this chapter the ideas about justice represent that justice is not always what it is thought as. It is usually thought as fair but some occasion justice is a way to punish somebody for their way of life. For example mainly in page 72 Jesse tell Calvin that sometime by how you look you are being judge, you get judge by how you talk, look, and where you come from. "Even if you speak the truth, they [Judges and jury] won't hear it if it has an accent or comes from thick, black lips. They certainly won't hear it if it's filled with sidewalk jargon and street slang." (Vea, 72)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jesse because now in day people are being judge by where they come from, how they look and how they act. They're a lot of discrimination now in day.
"Time travel" is used to desribe what the prisoners state of mind is in a way. The world is changing around them and "it was the rare prisoner who could move foward."(pg.52) It's as if time traveling is a contradiction; not many prisoners move foward in life because they're stuck in jail all of their life or when they get out, they go back to the same bad habits. Time traveling in other words were sleep. "Everyone doing time knew you had to sleep the years away in a state of [suspended animation] in order to reach your destination alive." (pg.53)
ReplyDeleteThe setting of this chapter takes place in prison mostly. Some prisoners are in jail for a short period of time, the others are in jail for their entire life. The metaphor "Time Travel" refers back to the prisoners because they use heir beds to escape from prison in their sleep, they did that because some were their for a long period of time they needed some way to make the time go by faster. An Example is Jesse when he sleeps he has dreams of his past, from the Vietnam War to the Victim's lives. Everyone in Prison knew they had to sleep the years away and that's what they did.
ReplyDeleteThe implied metaphor made in the opening of chapter 3 was based on the reality Jesse was living and the war life he previously had. Jesse could relate to any place he's in due to the fact that he spent so much time in war. His surroundings made it seem as if he was there basically giving allusions. For example, while introducing the building "jail" it reminded him of the little weird building where metal balls dropped to the floor and the elevation on the elevator showed the difficulties they dealt with war. Jesse's perspective of his actual life made him see everything that dealt with war. Therefore, while being in jail with the people in it they were having weird viewing of objects around them, both Jesse and the prisoners knew what time would be like there this was when time traveling took it's place. The majority of the prisoners had years to serve in jail therefore, "time traveling" was the best solution according to them. Sleeping was one of the best techniques where time would begin to diminish and actually reach there destination. If you knew how to pass time it wouldn't be so bad, however, if you didn't you wouldn't make it through jail, state prison, nor federal prison time traveling wise.
ReplyDeleteGeraldine and leticia you guys havent posted anything yet..and jelany and gisselle u guys havent posted any comments on my questions
ReplyDeleteTime travel is being connected with the prisoners in the way that they don't feel that they are in prison. The way that they do this is by them sleeping. In Jesse's case, time travel reminds him of his past when he was fighting in the Vietnam War.
ReplyDeleteThe implied metaphor in chapter 3 is "time traveler" which is talking about the prisoners in jail. "...began to experience the familiar yet still disconcerting sensation that the upper body was being pulled to the side and downward toward the floor."(Vea,52)saying that their in jail and it's hard to get up. It is connected to the rest of the novel in the way that it implies to the life that people experience in jail and some that don't succeed because their in jail in hard times.
ReplyDeleteThe metaphor at the beginning of the chapter about space/time travel is that the prisoners are stuck in there own little worlds while the rest of the world is moving forward and their just stuck until they are released then time starts to move normally, but they're in a new world that is different from their old world and have to try to adjust. The space travel can also be that the prisoners make up their own world to survive prison especially those that are in for life. the time travel connect in other parts of the book such as in the mourge, there it keep switching between the autopsy and Persephone's and Mai's last moment alive.
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